Introduction to Paul Lanfear

Michelle Cairns (0:11)

Hello and welcome to The Key Club Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Cairns, and today we have a wonderful guest for you, a longtime friend and in many ways a mentor from afar. His name is Paul Lanfear. Welcome, Paul.

Paul Lanfear (0:23)

Thank you very much for having me, Michelle. I take it as an enormous compliment that you put mentor in that that uh that that sentence. I'm not sure I entirely deserve that, but um, it's a thrill to be here. We've known each other for a long time. I've been really looking forward to catching up with you.

Michelle Cairns (0:38)

Amazing. Well, let's dive into that in a second. But for people who don't know you, I'll just do a little background. So, Paul obtained a first class law degree and started professional life as a barrister. He later qualified as a solicitor, practicing commercial, banking and finance litigation for 10 years, both in London, Leeds, and working for two of the world's leading law firms. All of this before leading a demanding qualification programme for prospective barristers, starting a family and becoming an award-winning property entrepreneur, investor, and multiple business owner. Now, these days he's focused on consultancy, family, and surfing. So, Paul. It's funny you should say we've we've known each other for a while because I always like to scroll back in WhatsApp to see when was it actually the first interaction? And would you believe it? It's almost to the day, eight years ago. Very well. Yeah, so that was fun. And we obviously met through the Manchester breakfast meeting, and then you started yours, and I started mine, and um and then we've kind of kept crossing paths, and I joined the inner circle, and then I fell pregnant, and you know, that life changed. And um yeah, and then uh and Matty's just turned four on Sunday.

Paul Lanfear (1:56)

I saw that four years. Doesn't the time absolutely fly by?

Michelle Cairns (2:01)

Crazy, crazy. So yeah, and you know, mentor from afar. I put that in because I was obviously really looking forward to this um chat that we're having today. And I think you have stood out for me as one of these um kind of like role models in a way of are not just about property and investing and um and the kind of technical support, if you like, from

Evolving Perspectives on Property and Life

Michelle Cairns (2:30)

your community, but also your philosophy, like your approach to life, how you look at designing your life. And I think there are very few people who are talking about that in a really public way. So uh I'm curious because obviously it's you know it's been a while since we've spoken, and I know we've got lots to get in into today, but have have things kind of changed for you dramatically over the last eight years, or are they kind of much the same? You've kind of settled on what you want out of life.

Paul Lanfear (3:05)

I would say every um every year is like a new revelation. Uh, and somebody who works very closely with us said to me fairly recently, he goes, It's really interesting working with you because Paul because every year is very different. You know, you're not just kind of on the hamster wheel doing the same thing every year. And um I'll I'll dive into why that that is. Interestingly, I I totally agree with you in the sense of um I never hold myself out as like a property guru. And I'll be honest with you, I have a love-hate relationship with property. So right now I'm actually falling back in love with it, interestingly, because I think sentiment is so bad that like that actually makes me interested in it again. When everybody is telling me like this is the best thing in the world, we're all gonna make millions, property's devils every 10 years. I kind of become very nervous and think, hmm, I'm not so sure. But now, because sentiment is so bad, and for reasons I'm happily to get into, you know, I've become more pro-property. But what is the interesting thing is we have a mutual friend, um, Tony, and um when I first kind of met Tony for like a proper chat, he said to me, I hear you're the guy who's actually done it. I said, What do you mean? I hear like everybody says about you, either to your face or behind your back, that you're the guy who's actually got his life worked out. And he said, Yes, Tony, I am that guy. And then obviously I've worked with Tony and he's he can judge for himself. We can all we can all check in with Tony and see whether he agrees. Um what is that about? I think, and is everything is so different than eight years ago. Um, I mean, I've got really fond memories. I think, you know, like shout out to Fraser and the you know, the guy who started that breakfast who was a mentor of mine and obviously had his challenges, lots of people have had had his challenges as well. Um, but that meeting was such a good meeting, you know, because it's really hard. You know, it's really hard when you're in the thick of it. You so that that would have been the we were like doubling down. I was we were about like six or seven years into a period of like really rapid growth. So five the first five years I always think is absolute hell, and anybody who tells you that it isn't is just is just lying to you. Like the first five years are hell, it's so stressful. You know, you're raising boatloads of money money, um, you're doing everything as professionally as you can, you're not getting much sleep, you like everything you're paying the price. Well, I suppose I'm just speaking for myself, like I was just paying the price everywhere in my health, my relationships, no one's seeing my friends, you know, see them like once a year, and and they'd be like, mate, like what are you doing? It's like I'm just really working at this thing. But yeah, I'm happy to say it's all all now worth it. Um, but that was a great meeting, and the the the philosophy of that meeting was like no presentations, but just come, share a problem, share an opportunity. And I I you know I have to drip drive across the Pennines for it, you know, believing at like six o'clock o'clock in the morning. But I always got so much value out of it. And then I don't know you know this story, but I but then Fre the so then the host kept on uh having challenges making his own meeting, and he was saying, Oh, I'm in um where did he have that flat? He had an apartment in the in Europe somewhere, a really beautiful place, Monaco or something like that. And he would phone me and say, Oh, I can't I can't cover my meeting. Will you be able to cover your my meeting? I was like, Yeah, sure I could. And then eventually it turned into this is ridiculous, Paul. You need to have your own meeting. I was like, No, no, I'm too busy, and I was doing like all this corporate stuff, you know, like a hundred people in a room, dry ice, music blaring, uh, and I was just like, mate, I don't have any capacity to do anything else. And he's go, right, just do it. And then I had a bit of a uh, you know, like reboot of my life and set up my own breakfast meeting and the rest and the rest is history. It's worth mentioning what that reboot is because I mean we you know, I mean you remember Phil. Yeah, so we had a mutual friend, a really good guy, one of the nicest guys in property. Um really healthy, really happy, pretty Zen, happily married, beautiful kids, dream home, chunky portfolio, worth seven figures, income of six, you know, and all the rest of it. And he um, you know, he very tragically left us, you know. Uh I I was looking the other day, uh, he was he was 43, um, which is just insane.

Michelle Cairns (7:54)

Um I'm 43 now, so I can relate to that. It's I mean, what age is that? 43?

Paul Lanfear (8:00)

It's nothing, it's absolutely nothing, you know. Um with life expectancy now and like the 80s and 90s, I would say, um, it's it's crazy. And you know, in my little property community where we support each other through the breakfast group, two guys this year have left us, 149, 151, um, taken far too soon, you know, family, family guys, got kids. So that when you ask that question of like, what is it the same as eight years ago? Um, it's completely different. And and a big part of that was was Phil, like, you know, we became net millionaires on the same day, had you know, roughly the same income, we'd gone through all the same problems, all the highs and lows. Um, and that that after you know, a year, I would say that year after we lost him was the most difficult year of my life for for lots of reasons, you know, because it kind of brings to the surf surface all this stuff. Um, but then I discovered surfing and became completely addicted to it. Um, and right, it's never been the same since. So obviously, my values are freedom, family, wealth, which

The Impact of Personal Loss on Life Choices

Paul Lanfear (9:20)

is a route to getting security. But a big part of that is also adventures, and really everything has been inspired by then. So there's lots of things, lots of great things I've left behind, and they were great things, but you just kind of you just have to grow and change and re-prioritize things. So eight years ago, I would guess we had like 236 tenants, probably. I think we're probably at our peak or there or thereabouts, um, all in HMO rooms. Um, you know, everything we touched was under HMO, including, you know, like little three-bedroom houses, which I know some people that's that model, and if you can get it to work, more power to you, definitely fewer tenants, that's great. But you know, we were like squeeging margins out of things that really didn't have a margin to give us, and we've pretty much changed that as an approach. Um, but yeah, so no, in answer to your question, it's very different now. So we have a a much leaner ecosystem, we have less properties, but also we have deleveraged in that time, both courtesy of a rising market and also courtesy of a deleveraging process. Um, and we have a you know lean, um very low hassle um um portfolio. And when we went through the restructuring of the portfolio, we went into it with the idea of lifestyle first. So we are happy to take less money if it means less stress and less administration. But the strangest thing has happened over the last few years. Obviously, mortgage rates have gone up, energy is like we pay the highest energy costs in the whole of Europe. Um, what that means is our model, because we've now pulled away from energy and cleaners and all that stuff, is actually more profitable now, even though our gross revenues are less. So we don't have room-by-room rooms, or we have very few room by rooms now. We do whole houses, boutique houses, and um and the the profits are still there to be made. Um, you know, like I said about um actually for the first time in ages being like positive on property, uh I you know, like no one governments are never going to stop spending money. We've learned that this year. So not throwing the Labour Party under a bus. I mean, I think everybody's feeling a bit frustrated, but like they cannot cap spending. They they they cannot cap spending. But then look across the pond, look at Trump, look at uh Doge, Elon's project. They could not get that to progress. So it's not a left-right thing, it's not like Labour, Tory, Conservative, Democrats. It is a the problem is the is government. Government is the problem. Um I saw someone do a really good post a while back, which was you know, if you think any politician is coming to the rescue, you know, you're deluded. And I would wholly I would have that as a tattoo if I was to get yet another tattoo. Um so we know the governments aren't going to live in their means. It's almost impossible to build houses in the UK. So when we're making less houses than we were in 1966, I think. Um we all know planning's a nightmare. Uh I just had a planning consultant on my on my podcast. So um the current currency debates continue. More people want to live in the UK because it's such an amazing place to live. I for the first time in years, I'm actually reasonably bullish on on property for that reason.

Michelle Cairns (13:03)

And do you think the you know the things that have happened and and losing Phil and and that has uh made you kind of more think at a higher level where you're just less in the detail and the problems and more focused on the solutions?

Paul Lanfear (13:27)

I definitely take like a very macro picture outlook.

Paul Lanfear (13:32)

Like so, so I I I think if I was to do anything differently, is I I'm obsessed by the bigger picture and I think about it all the time. Um, I think about it every single day. So I I will sound like an absolute crazy person if I go into the detail of some of the stuff I do, but I'm willing to like allude to some of it, but I will sound like a completely mad person. So I do think um this is a really interesting time in history to invest some really good quality time and effort in what we think the big picture is. Because I don't know whether you've noticed, Michelle, but like we live in really interesting times, like things are so crazy that um I think we should double down. I think we should double down on our lives, become really serious on our lives, and really design them. Um I was speaking to my friend a friend of mine about

Optimism in Uncertain Times

Paul Lanfear (14:30)

this and saying, There's no better time in history to really kind of lock in now and focus on exactly what you want. And and she like paused for a minute and she goes, Are you basically saying either this is gonna end wonderfully and therefore we should double down and like just go for it, or this is all gonna end up terribly and we should party like 1999? I said, Both are true, both are true. So I'm actually very optimistic about the future. I I think there are, I'm not gonna get into conspiracy theories, but but I think there are very powerful forces at work, including nation states, who want you to hate your country, hate your life, like just they're out there to influence you in a very negative way. And we need to resist all of that. You know, I what we see, you know, in these little sort of six-inch screens on our phones isn't the real world. I think most people, if you said to them, what do you think about what's going on in the world? if they reflected on what they see on a screen, they'll say, This is awful, Paul, this is really bad. If you to ask them to put your phone down and say, in terms of the humans you've met in the last seven days and the interactions with them, how would you describe them? And I'm sure not everybody would do this. Most people would say, Do you know what? Most humans I've met this week have been lovely and they're trying to they're working really hard and they're you know they're they're trying to do the right thing and they've been broadly helpful to me. Um, particularly if you're broadly helpful, help helpful to them. Um there's a book, if you want a book, there's a book called The Fourth Turning. Uh have you read The Fourth Turning yet? Okay. Have you heard of The Fourth Turning?

Michelle Cairns (16:16)

No, not at all. Oh, amazing.

Paul Lanfear (16:18)

Gosh, I'm really adding value here. Right, okay. So there's this book called The Fourth Turning, and it is um it's uh written by a couple of American authors, one of them unfortunately has passed away. It's a recently old book now, like a decades old, and it became famous in COVID because it foretold COVID. So specifically, there was a chapter that explained there would be a pandemic, this is how the government would behave, and these are the consequences of it. Um, it also that the authors are also uh the people who invented the term millennials.

Paul Lanfear (16:56)

Um, and they the way they have made money, and the remaining author still makes money, is they act as consultants to businesses and they talk about demographics and what the different generations are like and how businesses can relate to them. So if you if you want to market to a millennial business, a millennial client base, what are the messages that you would send? So I'm Gen X, so there's a particular stuff that would resonate uh with my with mine. Anyway, the book talks about the fact that that we live in 80-year cycles, which is roughly the length of a human lifetime, and we're now going, and there are different stages. The stage we're going now is called the fourth turning, where everything falls apart, and it's because all of the people who fought in the Second World War, so the last great global global conflict, are now very, very sadly leaving us. So my granddad was in the Second World War, um, came about with terrible PTSD. We lost him a long time ago now. Um, but people have forgotten the horrors of war and of like what total what they describe in the book as total war. And so what arises from that is this kind of sense of chaos, which I think a lot of people listening to the podcast might resonate with. Like, we just seem to live in this like lawless chaotic chaos chaotic world. And what is going to evolve through the fourth turning as we move into the awakening, which is the next stage, is um order is resumed, chaos subsides, there's a greater sense of community, and it's not it's less about kind of the individual, but it's more about you know uh us as a society moving forwards constructively. So it's I think it's good news. I think it's really positive. I think the 2030s are gonna be amazing. I think a lot of the problems we're struggling with now, I think we're gonna make progress, we're gonna make difficult decisions, we'll get to the other side of them, we'll look back, we'll be glad that we've done them. The 2030s will be extraordinary, and you think about where AI is gonna take us as well. Um, you know, look at like where medical technology is now. So my dad was rushed to the hospital the other day. Looked like, you know, my mum basically thought he was gonna die, quite rightly. She did, phoned me at four o'clock in the morning, jumped out of bed, drove down to see them. Within 24 hours, he walked out of a hospital. So he he walked into the hospital dying, he like couldn't breathe, body was like doing the final bits. 24 hours later, I walked, you know, I walked him out of the hospital. Like, I didn't have to take a wheelchair with me, he walked out of the hospital. So you think where we're gonna be by mid-2030, I let's say 2033, 35. Um, I don't know if you follow the guy who does the moonshots podcast, um, who talks about the singular. You know, he says his advice is just live till 2035. Because if you can live to 2035, uh we will have cured cancer, we would have cured heart disease, um, possibly universal basic income because the robots will be doing all the work, whether, you know, whatever your view is on that. So reasons to be positive, I would say.

Michelle Cairns (20:26)

Yeah, absolutely incredible. And I I completely agree. I think that you've got a choice to focus on all the negative or focus on all the opportunity and the creativity, and just like all of the positive things it can bring, and it it looks like it's bringing it just uh the speed, I think, is is scary to people who realise the speed of what's happening. I think most people just don't really, they just think, oh, there's uh cool AI videos on Instagram or something. That's that's really cool. But I don't think people really um in the most part understand like what is happening in the background and the advances in technology and healthcare, it's it is incredible, and uh and and that's one reason I love talking to you, and I think you know you have like as you say, you're focusing on that macro. I'm the opposite because I think I just need to focus on what I can control today. And uh I can't control all that stuff, so I like to take snippets from people that I trust who I know that have done the research and be informed that way. So it's great to I'll I'll check out that book as well because that'd be interesting.

Paul Lanfear (21:36)

I'll give you one other final thing to check out just on the subject of that, which is um it's it's so the video is now a bit a bit uh uh old, but the principles and the book is the same. There's a book called Um Enlightenment Now by uh Professor Stephen Pinker. And um he has got this YouTube video called Is the World Getting Better or Worse? Look at the numbers. And um he wrote this fantastic book called Enlightenment Now, which I really recommend everybody gets on audio and listens to. And basically, he delves into the data. So he takes all the politics out of it, he takes all of the ideology out of it, he takes all the bias out of it. What does the data tell us? The data tells us that the infant mortality is falling like off a cliff, which means that more and more babies are being um born healthily without any complications, and you know, the mothers are doing well, all the rest of it. You know, the people dying in wars, broadly speaking, like that, the you know, the charts are going down quite sleepily, suggesting that actually, even though yes, we live in a world where there's a lot of conflict, the actual number of people um dying in wars is going down. More people are living in democracies, um universally poverty generally is um being combated like never before. And I know this isn't like what we hear in the media, so the instead the reaction I would have is that can't be true because of what we're told. But I urge people to read it, listen to his book, check out his thing. There's reasons to be positive. I think just on the finish on the positive thing, um I I do believe positivity is a superpower as well, insofar as people sound really smart when they're foretelling the end of the world. And a prolific property influencer once told me that he pushes puts the word crash in the title of his YouTube videos because it's what gets people to click on the videos, and very often his videos then change the subject halfway through. But so it um people sound smart when they're being pessimistic and telling you that it's the end of the world, but I think cultivating rationally an optimistic point of view is a superpower, you know. Because without it it's very difficult to get forward movement, and forward movement is the thing that we we all need. Um and uh we can segue into how you might achieve that if you like.

Michelle Cairns (24:17)

Yes, please. Well, I I'm gonna just throw

Pursuing Abundant Health and Wealth

Michelle Cairns (24:20)

in a question to Segware if that's okay. Um, because I heard you say once that uh being a barrister and sister, the law isn't about justice, it's about finding answers to questions.

Michelle Cairns (24:32)

So talk to us about a question that you've got that you're looking for an answer to.

Paul Lanfear (24:39)

A question that I'm looking for an answer to.

Michelle Cairns (24:41)

On that topic that you were going towards.

Paul Lanfear (24:45)

Um I think the question that's on the top of my mind at the moment is how to create abundant, good health. You know, it's something that I have invested in and have made really good progress with, with a few surprises along the way. Um the surprise along the way is I recently uh I kind of reached that point where I thought, you know what, I'm really gonna focus on my health, I'm really gonna like take the next step. I I read this really fascinating book by Peter Atier called Outlive.

Michelle Cairns (25:21)

Have you read that? Um, Rich has, and I think it's in my audio audible somewhere.

Paul Lanfear (25:27)

But I haven't read it. Clearly a very healthy human being. Um I would highly recommend it. I'd recommend everybody to seek it out. I um I listened to it and he talks about that marginal decade, so that last year that you you live, whether that's like 80 to 90 or whatever that may be. And um, you know, if anybody's witnessed their parents in that chapter of life, it's an in, you know, they'll understand why that's such an important period of life because life suddenly does change quite a lot. And in that book, what captured my imagination in that book was he um he said, you know, there are a few core things that you've got to be able to do, so you need to train for them. It was just really like fascinating. He was like, You need to be able to run a mile so you can catch a flight, you need to be able to do like a farmer's walk, you know, with fair with heavy weights in each hand so that you can carry your suitcases, um, and all the rest of it. And I suppose I was like maybe didn't I wasn't fully on board. I then we then flew to Portugal, and for some reason we had a random connecting flight in Frankfurt. Our first flight was late, and we had to like do the changeover in Frankfurt, and um we had to sprint across this airport, right? Um, and it was at least a mile, and my 18-year-old daughter like was like miles ahead of us, and me and Liz were like well behind her, and then um we got to the destination airport, whatever it was, and um the lift had gone, so it was like I carried Liz's case, my case, I had a laptop bag on my my my back, and uh like five flights of stairs, and then we got on the connecting bus to get to another part of the airport, and it was packed, and there was nowhere to put our cases other than on this top row, which was well above our head. So it's like getting a kettlebell and like doing a snatch with a kettlebell. And I after that, those three experiences which happened all in the space of an hour, I thought he's got a point. This guy has got a point. So I really drilled down in my house. I lost four stone, I had four stone to lose. Um, the comedy of it, or not the comedy of it, but the surprise on it was I decades ago I was in a horrendous motorcycle accident. I should never, you know, motorcycle cycles are dangerous, kids, avoid them, especially when you're an idiot like me. Um and I had to have like my whole right leg rebuilt and all kinds of things like that. And the function of losing weight uh meant that the metal work that they put in began to become exposed because it didn't have all the cushioning that it had before. And I saw this consultant surgeon, he said, unfortunately, this is really common in people who become lean, you know, and who weren't previously lean. So um, you know, we can have it out for you, and you won't have any problem, and I don't think you'll have any problems. And um, you know, 10,000 pounds later, um, I I had it out, and it's the best thing I've ever done in my life. But it's interesting, isn't it? Like you you move forward in a direction of of doing something positive, and there's always a bit of a surprise. So that was a bit of a road, that was a little bit of a speed bump on the road, but now it means I can surf, I can mountaineer, I can do all the other stuff again. So that's pretty good. So, in answer to your question, um, if I could solve any problem or answer have a question to anything, it would be like absolutely the most abundant good health in the world in the world. And I think I'm moving towards it, and I think my family are moving towards it. Um, but I think about that a lot, you know. I think about that all the every morning.

Michelle Cairns (28:58)

I think uh it's one of those things a bit like wealth that you have to give it your attention every day, you have to always be moving towards it, and then you're not going backwards, right? So it doesn't really matter at the speed of at which you're moving as long as you're moving forward and always kind of building on that.

Paul Lanfear (29:18)

Um and I think the two are very related, as as as you you clearly know, it's like I think the two are extremely strictly related. Like um a lot of it, I think it's in the mind, you know, it it's what we choose to believe and the way that we see the world. Um I think health is determined by a lot of what we think about, and then and so is well is wealth, it's you know, chasing after opportunities, being in the right place, being around the right people, taking risks, um, putting up with the sleepless nights, put being put up, putting up with being scared, you know. I mean, I'm still, you know, actively putting money at risk. And you know, yesterday, you know, I felt scared, you know. I was I it was like big numbers and it was uncomfortable and big decisions. You know, that it never ends. Unless, you know, I guess it does end at some point, but not currently for me, you know. I'm still getting after it if I can.

Michelle Cairns (30:13)

Well, not if you're growing, right? That's always that getting outside of your comfort zone, that feeling of just stretching what's possible and your life, and whether that's giving back or growing your portfolio or um just reaching for your potential, you're always gonna feel like it's a bit scary, right?

Paul Lanfear (30:36)

Shall I tell you the bad news about growth, Michelle?

Michelle Cairns (30:39)

Go on.

Paul Lanfear (30:40)

One of my uh mentors once said to me, he said, Um, there are only unfortunately, Paul, there are only two natural states in the universe, which is either growth or decline. So you've got you you've got to you are picking one of those at every moment in your life. And it you know, it gives the example of a tree. Like a tree is never standing still, so it's either growing or it's then passing over and it's in that that decline phase. So you've got to pick, haven't you? You gotta pick which uh which mode you want to be in.

Michelle Cairns (31:10)

Well, thankfully we're not a tree and we can choose.

The Power of Planning

Paul Lanfear (31:12)

So exactly, exactly. As Jim Rowan says, you can you know, you you can move, you're not a tree. I love it.

Michelle Cairns (31:18)

Okay, well let's uh let's talk about um you've you mentioned about a plan before, and there's that phrase why an um why an idiot with a plan will always beat a genius without one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it seems like a lot of what you're you have done in the past and what you're doing now involves a plan. So talk to us about practical plans and how to improve your wealth and your health, your life. You've talked about lifestyle as well through planning.

Paul Lanfear (31:54)

So there were two well after I lost Phil, there were two books that I revisited, which I'd already revisited, which I'd already spent a lot of time with. But you know, sometimes you just see things with like fresh eyes. It's as if if it's as if it's the first time you've ever heard that piece of information, and you know, the mind is perhaps more receptive, you know, it's like looking for something, it's trying and it wants to bring in resources. So the first book, just lovely, like classic book,

Revisiting Influential Books

Paul Lanfear (32:25)

Jim Rowan's The Art of Exceptional Living, just a nice, easy. I remember listening to that and just beginning to find my feet again. Listening to that and going, okay, I think this is going to be okay. And it to forewarn people who've not listened to it, it feels really dated in the first couple of chapters. And you kind of think, like, what am I like? Who is this guy? Why am I doing this? But for me, it's like a hockey stick, it's like exponential at the end. At the end, it's like, oh wow, this is what I came for. Whether other people have that experience, I don't know, but I do. Um, just circling back to what you were saying about people not understanding where the world is going at the rate it's going, it's because it's exponential, and human beings cannot get their minds around exponential growth, which is the hockey stick. You know, things aren't going up linear, they are going up like a rocket. Um, and then the second bit book I revisited was this book by John C. Maxwell, The 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth. There's a chapter in there called The Law of Design, and um he gets you to really he reckons doing it on an annual basis, which clearly makes sense. But I also think we live in a world where you can do it just whenever you like. You know, so obviously I do I do this like a lot of people in Christmas January time, uh, and I have an event which I kind of put on, a charity event which I put on where we do all this stuff. But I I genuinely think someone listen to this podcast, you can hard reset your life in a day. So you can get an early night tonight and then wake up tomorrow and just get that get like on it. Um, you could get his book, um, you could think about what he recommends in the book, which is to do this kind of audit of your life, um, which is actually more fun than you think it would be, and and decide, you know, more or less eliminate. Like, what am I not gonna

Life Audits and New Choices

Paul Lanfear (34:23)

do? And it doesn't mean that you hate those things, it's just you might stop going to Starbucks or wherever it wherever it is that you decide to do. You might become a great coffee maker at home. Um, so you're not eliminating things because they're bad or anything like that, you're just making new life choices. Um, and then you double down on things that you want to keep the same, relationships to family, hopefully, that kind of thing, and then more of, you know, like and that could be like I'm gonna learn an option trading course, or I'm gonna learn about more about property, or I'm gonna learn how to have my own like lifestyle business, or whatever it might be that you want to learn, and then set about like moving in that direction, and like maybe a bit of Stephen Covey in there as well, like start with the end in mind. So have like a vivid picture in your mind about what it is that you're where you're heading. So, as you know, I love being outside, I love adventures, I love surfing. I I just like being outside a lot. Uh, I like quite a lot of time on my own as well. Um, so as I'm getting older, more introverted, I suppose. Um, I can see it in my mind. I I see exactly the way I want it to be. And I create a one-page business plan at the start of the year. I know what I need to focus on. Uh there are broadly eight human needs. One of those is having your finances in order, and every single human being on the planet needs to revisit that every year because it always changes. I've had people on my podcast, I've a guy by podcast who'd sold like a multi, multi-million business, a million-pound business, but he um he had no cash flow because he'd sold the asset, and he was like back to zero. So he was like, shit, how do I make money again? Um, and decide where you're at. Like, is this year you need to shore up your cash flow because we

Understanding Financial Health

Paul Lanfear (36:20)

have persistent ongoing inflation, regardless of what's in the CPI? I know everything I want to buy goes up by about 10% every single year. It's absolutely bonkers. Like, I know this is a first-world problem and a luxury problem to have, but like skiing holidays for the love of God, like what has happened to skiing holidays? Um, anyway. Uh or is it the you know, your cash flow is really good, you're pretty comfortable, you you know, you're creating a surplus, which is the ideal place to be. Um, do you need to be storing economic energy for another time, another phase in your life, or for other people in your life? Like, do you have a daughter who might get married at some point? You know, those kinds and maybe have babies, who knows? Um, and then it's the tier above is about protection is are is your cash flow totally cool? You've you're acquiring capital, you're investing in the market every month. Have you attended to you know what might happen next? So I'm not gonna say the boring things because I don't think they're boring, but wills, power attorneys, trusts, those kind of things. Um, all the things that become important when you know when when things happen. And then the tier above, like you might have all of that handled. And I know people who are in that position, but they have no purpose, probably because they've attended to all of those things. And so then it's like, well, what's your contribution going to be? And you know, I'm working with a person right now who has attended to all aspects of their financial life and for the rest of their life, but they are currently re-revisiting this question of purpose, um, which I think's interesting. So I would say in a one-page business plan, you need to think about where you're at. Most people are at cash flow and they need to return to cash flow every year, but you might be higher up the hierarchy and you might need to attend to those different things.

Michelle Cairns (38:15)

What's your key focus for next year then?

Paul Lanfear (38:18)

So cash flow is

Long-Term Vision and Future Projects

Paul Lanfear (38:20)

pretty good. Um, I'm thinking um about a period in time. So I have pithy titles for everything. Uh so I'm thinking about this phase of my life called Silver Surfer. Uh so Silver Surfer is in the mid-2030s, and it's when I'll have access to my SIP and my SAS. So I'm doing very different and interesting things with those, and I am growing those to, yeah, it's, you know, so they'll be a meaningful, they'll make a meaningful difference. The frustration I'm currently dealing with, and I don't I'm not gonna get into the politics of it, is obviously, you know, in the last budget, pensions were then put into people's uh asset uh portfolio, you know, put into their estates for the purposes of inheritance tax. I I honestly think that is inhumane. Um I don't think pensions should be changed. I think you know they should there should be a you know all of government should agree there are certain things that should be left alone for the good of society. And I think pensions is one of those. Anyway, I'm not gonna get into the high course about that. So that's that that's phase. And then I have this other project uh which is like in 2040, which is called Nirvana 2.0. So I have a surf retreat on the coast, um, the profits of which goes to a charity called the Wave Project, who just do they do this thing called surf therapy, and my recovery from losing Phil was to take myself on a course of surf therapy. Turns out it's a it's recognised you know around the world by the NHS. So there's a charity called the Wave Project, and the Profits from our business support that that charity. So we have the the Surf Retreat. The the vision is Nirvana 2.0, which is around 2040, which is to build a retreat center on the coast in some woodland. I already host retreats, but I I you know use other people's spaces. Um, and uh, you know, maybe we'll have a thing where we grow Christmas trees, and everybody who comes to retreat comes back at Christ like you know the week before Christmas and they can take away Christmas tree, and they've got kids, they can get kids to cut down the Christmas trees. So that's Nirvana 2.0. So those are the things that I'm kind of they're they're like long-term plans. But even though they're they're long-term plans, you know, I come up with all this the vision, create the one-page business plan, then create the quarterly roadmap, then think about month by month. But then every single day I get my head in my journal for an hour when I wake up. So Liz says I've got ADHD, and and she's probably right, and someone else has said I'll probably do as well. So I have a lot going on in my mind when I wake up. So I have to like write things down. So I write everything down that's going on in my mind. And even though you know we were recording this in 2025, you know, I in here just this morning, I've got

The Importance of Journaling

Paul Lanfear (41:16)

stuff I'm doing in 2026, ideas around that, um, stuff in the mid-2030s, 2040s, because all of this stuff is just just being kind of worked on by the subconscious mind, and I just get it all onto paper, as well as the more you know, um important daily actions like remember to get on Michelle's podcast, um, uh remember to have one-to-one to people this afternoon, that kind of thing. So, yeah, um I should be on the I'd love to tell me more.

Michelle Cairns (41:45)

Like, I just want to dive into that a little bit because I love this idea of journaling and writing, capturing, and I've I have this struggle between should I be capturing it electronically so that I can do something with it and action it, or should it be this uh brain dump of just getting thoughts out onto paper and um and as you say, kind of processing it? So, do you do you do anything with those in terms of actioning it, or is it more of a just a brain dump to clear your mind in the morning?

Paul Lanfear (42:13)

So um, well, just just this is largely for comedy value, Michelle. You will laugh at me, but um I use the best self journals and I use them in a particular way, uh, which is kind of customized myself, and I help I help people do the same thing as well. But they've just set up in the UK and I'm not on commission. I wish I had an affiliate link to share with you, but I absolutely don't, but because they've just set up in the UK, I've bought an entire year's worth of best sell journals because I'm absolutely obsessed with them. Um, because they've just set up in the UK, so you don't have to ship from the States anymore.

Michelle Cairns (42:46)

You know what? I think I've got one upstairs. I'm gonna have to dig it out. I think I might have um it it's amongst other uh piles of journal, you know, these these beautiful books, and I work my way through them, but I think I saw it and thought, this is this looks amazing, but I've never actually used it, so tell me how you use it.

Paul Lanfear (43:03)

Well, I think I think that's fair enough. I and I think there's different journals for different seasons. So the season I'm in at the moment is I know my direction of travel, it's about executing the plan every single day, waking up, checking in on the plan, and thinking about what what like connecting with the vision, because it gets you out of bed, makes you do the hard things, and then thinking about what the daily what's the three things I can do today that are genuinely going to meet move the needle towards the direction of travel that I want. But I think if you're in a different season of life, um where you're you're in a more reflective. So you know, somebody I've worked for this year is in a very reflective stage because you know left uh their previous profession, but also taking, I think, a really sensible approach and not sprinting out of the gate, you know, to become you know a massive port. Portfolio landlord, you know, she's doing some property, but she's

Quarterly Planning and Execution

Paul Lanfear (44:03)

doing it, I think, quite smart, like doing it step by step. And she she's doing a lot of inner reflection. So I've a different kind I've got a very beautiful journal that I'd use for that, but I'm in kind of execution mode, so I use the best sell. So the way it works for me is clear vision, one-page business plan created every January, um, and then distilled into a roadmap. Um, a very easy way to do your roadmap is to get a wall planner and do it in draft on your wall planner. There you go, me and Michelle both get our wall planners. Um and it doesn't hurt to see things hang in your office. You know, and put the good stuff in there, you know, as well. Like, you know, if you if you're lucky enough to have got Glastonbury tickets or whatever it is, or your friends, your best friends getting married, or you know, whatever, or a great anniversary, so that when you are like crunching the numbers and you know, the tipping it down outstairs, and you know, you outside and the roofs, you've got a roof, you know, all that stuff we have to deal with in daily life. It acts as a bit of inspiration. And then every quarter I get uh I get a new journal, and then map out the whole quarter with the big milestones in that corner, in that quarter. So let's say you're being very inspired by Michelle's podcast, and you're thinking, uh I'd love to do a podcast like Michelle's or you know, my own version of it. Think about it, I will think about it in quarters then. So it's like, okay, the first quarter, design the podcast, check out what kind of podcasts you have you want to have, spend 12, 13 weeks thinking about that. Quarter two, buy an off-the-shelf podcast course for an hour, you know, whatever it is, um, and that will list all the kit you need, that'll list the microphone and the software you might need. Perfect, that's quarter, quarter two solved. Quarter three, invite a couple of your friends on your podcast, and then if it's really awful, we can just never speak about it ever again. And then they'll be they'll be well up for doing your podcast because they'll they'll love it and they'll want to support you. Record your first couple of podcasts, make loads of mistakes, but get a bit of a feel for it. And then quarter four, release your podcasts, get your thumbnails done, get your brand, get someone to help you with branding. And what might have appeared on the on the first of January is like an impossible task. How am I ever going to get a podcast launched? When it's broken down into like quarterly milestones that are just really easy to focus on, then you find a way of getting between those. I I don't think we should spend too much time on like every granular task you have to do. It's just like what are the big milestones in life? You know, like I've in the last two years I've learned options trading and it's now like really nicely profitable, and it's a good, it's another string to our bow, it's another layer of resilience. Um, you know, how does that start? It starts, well, research all the all the options trading courses because some will be good, some will be awful. Um, invest, you know, like spend your money and invest in the in the in the course. Test, test, test, test, test, like even though it's boring and even though you don't want to do it, and then go live with real money, but only like a fraction of your portfolio, and then release a bit more of your portfolio into it, and you know, it gets a bit scary because you're into the bigger numbers, and then you step in, you know, with the the rest of the portfolio you're going to use, and at that point, you even though you know what you're doing, it's still terrifying, but you've you're heading from milestone to to milestone.

Michelle Cairns (47:38)

So that's I just have one question on that. When because when people do uh whether it's options trading, podcasts, or property, it can be really overwhelming when you realise what's involved and what you actually need to do. And I think there's a danger for people to get really overwhelmed. So by planning out the year or you know, the thinking at the end of mind and having those key milestones are great. And how do you bring yourself down to okay, back to executing on the plan when it does feel really overwhelming?

Paul Lanfear (48:18)

So we uh we have a mutual friend,

Overcoming Overwhelm

Paul Lanfear (48:20)

fellow podcaster Tom from the Kappa Vapa podcast. Um he once said something very wise to me. He said, Paul, um, if we knew how difficult it was good would be, we probably wouldn't have done it. And I just think that's true. I so I think actually a little bit of naivety, um maybe is not such a bad thing. You know, maybe, you know, maybe it's not such a bad thing. Um because you've got to you've got to get started, haven't you?

Michelle Cairns (48:47)

You do, and you've just got to chip away, I think, as well.

Paul Lanfear (48:50)

Definitely, and keep going. Like, for the love of God, keep going. Um, particularly if you are in a like if like in the in the in a surfing context, we have this thing called the impact zone, which is where you see all the white kind of frothy waves where the waves are breaking in on you. The key is to not live in the impact zone, and I think that's true of life and business as well. So if you're going through a really difficult time, if you're in the impact zone, you need to paddle, you need to get out of the impact zone. You cannot stay there for too long. And in a property business, that might be negative cash flow, um, you know, which is really easily can easily be done. Refurbs, bad, you know, then you're unlucky with a tenant. I'm not very ne I'm not negative about tenants. I actually think the relationship with tenants is demonized. Most tenants are good human beings, most landlords are good human beings. There's a slight, there's a small proportion of both that cause all of the problems, hence why we've got all this legislation coming in. But like your average tenant that we work with, they just want to live in a home and have good people.

Michelle Cairns (49:52)

But that's what the news does it, Paul.

Paul Lanfear (49:54)

So no, it doesn't make headlines, doesn't book leads, leads, and all that. Um, so overwhelm, and you know, I'm I would say every week I will have a moment of overwhelm, and I'd say every month I'll have a chronic day of overwhelm where you know it just fries your mind and you can't think, uh, you know, and it's everything is just a fog, and you know, it's difficult to concentrate because there's just so much going on. So I think it's about if you're in the impact zone in that moment, it's about what are the fundamentals and what is what are the key actions, no more than three, that you can take to move forward. Um the most important tasks, basically. So it's just what what are three things we can do?

Michelle Cairns (50:54)

Perfect. Well, on that, do you want to give three or do you just want to give one? Because I was gonna ask you to kind of wrap up what is one key action that people can go out and do today to move them forward in their investing journey?

Paul Lanfear (51:08)

I'm gonna have to give you three.

Michelle Cairns (51:10)

Great, amazing overachiever, of course.

Paul Lanfear (51:13)

So I think one

Key Actions for Progress

Paul Lanfear (51:15)

is have a plan. So even if you already have a plan, revis the world is just so different, okay? Like the world has changed so much. I think revisit your plan. Uh, and I can help you with that, and I'll talk about that in a minute. But I think one, whatever you do, have a plan. You know, there is that Warren Buffett thing, idiot with a plan, blah, blah, blah. But have a plan. Whenever I speak to anybody, including really affluent friends who are, you know, the top of their careers and they asking my advice on something, I say, where does this fit in your plan? And they will often look at me and go, what plan would that be, Paul? Um, and maybe that's a function of like corporate life, you know, because in corporate life, kind of someone else maybe has the plan for you. But I think have a plan. Do you know what? Doesn't need to be a good plan. Does not even need to be a good plan, but it has to be broadly where am I going and why am I doing this? And roughly what are those milestones? Something you can put together in two hours, basically. Um most important task number two, execute the plan every single day, regardless of how you feel. And that that again is just like three tasks. Wake up, what are the three things most important tasks that can do? And allow yourself to be led by your um your your nature. So I'm a morning person, my brother is a night owl. So my brother works uh in I used to work in IT, so you know he used to work across time zones, Argentina, India, Australia. So he doesn't, my brother doesn't get firing till like 11 o'clock at night. I get firing at six o'clock in the morning. So we're very different people. Um, but lean into that. So I know that my most high value hour is six until seven o'clock in the morning. So that's heading my journal, having a coffee, just getting absolutely everything clear in my mind, then off to the gym, meditation, healthy breakfast, bit of time, Millie and Liz, and then like pretty much dialed in by by nine o'clock. And then I'll do the most important thing first, then little break, maybe go out for a walk in the woods, the second most important task, and then after lunch, I'll do the third most important task, but already the law of diminishing returns is kicking in for me after lunch. You know, already I am like at like 50% of where I'd probably be, and then three o'clock onwards, it's admin and more kind of social engagement, really. Um so like ex execute the the plan and execute it daily and only buy off three most important tasks. And then the final thing, which we've kind of alluded to here, is um it's like to prioritize health and well-being. Um and if you're you know, I can tell you what shifts me, like nothing shifts me better than just being out in nature. I mean, I don't want to necessarily advocate that everybody go surfing, so I don't want like to be responsible for the drowning of like half the population of property investors in the UK, but but like not like nothing comes close to it for me, like it is it's otherworldly for me. Uh that I have such a connection with it, you know. I really uh when I'm on my board and it's the sunrise and it just connects with me on such a different different level, you know. I wonder if it's even like ancestral, you know.

Health and Well-Being as a Priority

Paul Lanfear (54:55)

Apparently I'm descended from a Viking, you know, obviously they spent a bit of time in the water, but for me it just changes everything. But I know that a good friend of mine walks his dog twice a day through the woods. He he says that's like pure recalibration for him. Um, other people go do Thai boxing and just express it in in that way, yoga, whatever it is. Um but for me it's re you know re-have like a health, well-being reset daily basis, particularly when you're overwhelmed, and for me, that's all about nature. If we circle back also to the AI thing, I think the the fear, a lot of the fears that people have around AI, the answer is found in the natural world, in that human beings will always want genuine connection with other human beings. And that's why it's a higher order skill that we need to make sure we preserve and our children preserve as well. You know, so I talk to my daughter a lot, you know, she's very smart, you know, she's more on the mathsy kind of brain thing. But I I always say to her the most important skill is your ability to relate to humans because that that will be the skill that's in demand, hence why you know I host retreats, you know, it it's it's that reconnecting with um what humans are like, and it's funny, you know, like it's quite easy as a human being now to to lose that connection both with the natural world but also with humans. When people, you know, it's amazing watching humans at the end of a retreat, you kind of see them reset back to their natural order of things.

Michelle Cairns (56:32)

Well, tell us uh more about your uh your retreat, but also your breakfast meeting as well. So you do that once a month. Are you uh doing that hybrid now? Like as a because I think you've alternated it for a while.

Paul Lanfear (56:46)

Yeah, so it's been on like a complete evolution

Community and Connection through Retreats

Paul Lanfear (56:48)

from being entirely online to be so from being entirely on person to being entirely online. So where the groove of it is now, which I'm really enjoying, so I reckon I'm gonna stick with, is we do um a charity event in January, every January. And um we'll put a link in the show notes if we can. And we do it for an amazing charity in Leeds called Flourishing Families. So Flourishing Families, um I became connected with them through COVID because in COVID obviously all the schools shut, and that that was a very challenging experience for kids in disadvantaged families who didn't necessarily have the resources that other families had. And maybe they had parents who were struggling themselves with with challenges in life, you know, around addiction and ill health and those kind of things. Anyway, they did the most amazing work and and they continue to do it now. So their whole ethos is if you look after the family, the kids do alright, and kids do do all right, become great, well-adjusted human beings. And you look at you look at terrible things that happen in the world. No enlightened, nurtured human being would ever go on to do a terrible thing. So if we can look after the kids, pretty much eventually everybody will be well. And I love them, I think they're amazing, and they did great work. So every year, put post this event, everyone leaves with a one-page business plan, it's two hours. Um, I take you through a load of different exercises, and it pops out a one-page business plan if you want one. And then every quarter we meet up in person in Alton Hall, which is this beautiful golf resort thing. Um, 7:30 till 9.30 in the morning, two hours, great breakfast, no speakers, no presentations per se, but just like really high, high value networking. And then um, obviously, I do my podcast. So the thinking behind that is if I was going to have speakers at the event, these would be the speakers. But rather than have them speak to people in the room, I'll chuck them on the podcast, and then we can talk about it when we have the session. So it's like taking the knowledge element out and focusing on the networking. Um, and then every year I organise the adventure retreat. So the adventure retreat is typically in September. Um, everybody's welcome, and um, we go up a mountain, we do some paddleboarding, do some yoga, um, you eat loads of beautiful food. So I'm a like complete carnivore, but all the food is like vegetarian and vegan food because it's good for us to try new things. I include myself in that. Um, and that's good fun. That's it. That's look out for that every September. That's pretty wild, and that's good fun. And then um, following on from that, I then organise uh these quarterly retreats where I take people surfing, paddleboarding. Um, we do a lot of like beach, beach sauna, cold exposure stuff. It's all good, it's all really good, good fun.

Michelle Cairns (59:38)

It does sound like good fun. Yeah. I uh I've been meaning to get to the retreat one, but with the with having the baby and the one, it's haven't quite managed it yet. But I'm all I've always got FOMO every time I see you guys on your retreats. Like, oh god. When you when you can get when you can get away, um you'll absolutely love it.

Paul Lanfear (59:57)

You'll you'll love it. And it's hosted by the most remarkable women. You know, they they're called there's a pose in yoga called the goddess pose, and uh so they're kind of called the goddesses, and they just they just take amazing care of us. Um and you know, safety first, so we've got professional mountain guide, professional paddle, uh, you know, paddleboard instructors, qualified yoga teachers. So that's it's not me like just like messing about. I have this amazing female team of um of people.

Michelle Cairns (1:00:28)

Well, I don't think anyone who's heard your podcast and got this far would uh even dream that you would be messing about. I'm sure it'd be all planned out and organised and executed on the plan. So um we will put the links to those in the show notes, Paul. And I understood we could just talk to you all day, and I'm really grateful for uh your time and just sharing your um you know, your philosophies, your mission, your purpose with us, and um your big dreams for for you know next year and beyond. So um as I said, we've there's there's so many things that we didn't even get to talk about to today that uh I think you know we'll bring you back on next year and be good to follow up with uh what happens. And of course, you know, everything's just changing so fast and it's great to stay plugged into people like you who are uh moving with the times, you've got the plan, you've got that vision, so it's inspiring. So yeah, amazing. Thank you.

Paul Lanfear (1:01:26)

I'll leave you with a well, thank you very much for the introduction for the for those very kind words. I'll leave you with a little fun exercise that somebody can do. If you go onto AI and um put in the year of your birth and put in something like, um, what are all the world-ending events that have happened since the date of your your birth? And they all come up with like 20, 20 events that are apparently before telling the end of the world. And what do you notice? The world did not end, it continues to go forward. Babies keep on being born, it's all good. It's so um, I think there's room for being optimistic. Yeah, I really thank you so much for inviting me on the podcast. It's Michelle Michelle, it's always an absolute pleasure, and uh yeah, love to come back again if you'll have me.

Michelle Cairns (1:02:10)

Amazing, likewise, right. Okay, thank you so much, and thanks everyone for listening to us. Tune in next time for another fabulous guest speaker. Take care, for now.