Introduction and Guest Background

Michelle Cairns (0:12)

Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Key Club Podcast. Today, our special guest is Pat Slattery, an entrepreneur, international speaker, and business mentor who built a multi-million euro business from very humble beginnings in Limerick in Ireland. One of 16 children, Pat left school at the age of 14 and went on to build a business employing hundreds of people. Today he's known for helping people bridge the gap between knowing what to do and actually doing it, through practical lessons on decision-making, resilience, and taking action. So, in this episode, we're going to be exploring lots of things around property investing. Pat has got international experience of property investing, but he's got UK-based experience as well, so we'll get into that. First of all, Pat, welcome to the show, it's great to have you on.

Pat Slattery (1:08)

Thank you, Michelle. It's a pleasure to be here.

Michelle Cairns (1:12)

It's great to have you on.

Why Knowledge Isn't the Barrier, Execution Is

Michelle Cairns (1:14)

So let's dive straight in, right? For people who are listening, there's going to be some people who are not taking action in property, right? They want to do their next deal, but they haven't for some reason. They might even have the funds. So in your experience, Pat, what actually stops people who are already capable, already have the funds, but there's some mindset issue?

Pat Slattery (1:43)

You know what, Michelle, I think this is a great question, right? Because I genuinely believe that knowledge isn't what's actually holding most people back anymore. I've dealt with tens of thousands of people now over the last 30 years, and it seems to be the same process. Because 20 or 30 years ago, access to information was limited. Today you can learn anything about property and property investment on YouTube, going to podcasts, or maybe going to different networking events. So information has never been more accessible. Yet people still are not taking action. Most people, by the way, who are looking to get into property don't take action. Now that tells us something, and it tells us the issue isn't information, the issue is execution. I often say that success isn't about knowing more, it's about acting consistently on what you already know. So most investors don't need another strategy, they need to make decisions. That's where most people are at, most people are not making decisions.

Most investors that I work with already know what to do to take the next step. They know how to source a deal, they know how to raise finance, they know how to speak to agents, and they know what needs to happen next. But the real problem is that knowledge just doesn't create results, action does. What's stopping them, in my experience, is usually a combination of fear, uncertainty, or overthinking, or waiting for the next perfect moment. They tell themselves they're doing research, but often they're delaying the decision, because making the decision actually creates accountability. As long as they're learning, they never have to risk being wrong. That's an issue I've come across with a lot of people, especially when they're considering getting into the property market.

The biggest gap in business, and for me property is a business, right, I have no emotion when it comes to property whatsoever, to me it's a business, and I have to treat it like a business. So we also know in my property business, or in anybody's property business, the biggest gap isn't the knowledge gap, it's the execution gap again. The investors who build substantial portfolios aren't necessarily the smartest people in the room, they're the ones who make decisions, who learn from the outcomes, who adjust and keep moving. Every single successful investor I know has made mistakes, by the way. The difference is they don't let those mistakes define them or stop them.

So if someone listening today has been thinking about their next deal for maybe six months, I'd ask them one simple question: what information are you genuinely missing that you need before you can move? Most people cannot answer that honestly, because they've really got enough information. What they need now is commitment. People need to realise that property rewards people who make informed decisions, not perfect decisions. There is no such thing as a perfect deal, there is no perfect market and no perfect time, there is only the decision to move forward, and I think that's where most people are lacking.

Michelle Cairns (5:00)

And you talk a lot about decisions, and in order to get to where you are today, you must have made quite a lot of them. Talk to us about making decisions, and if you can think of an example that stands out in your mind, a decision that had a lot of uncertainty around it, but it was the right decision to make at the time, and you just needed to pull the trigger.

Pat Slattery (5:24)

Well, let me tell you something. Every decision creates uncertainty, right? And that's usually what stops people, because people don't actually fear the deal, they don't fear property, they fear what it represents. What if I lose money? The old programming starts to come in. What if I lose money? What if interest rates change? What if the refurb goes wrong? What if the tenants stop paying? What if everyone realises I don't know what I'm doing? These thoughts are usually what creates hesitation. So for me, I look at a deal, and yes, I do my due diligence on a deal.

Making Decisions Amidst Uncertainty

Pat Slattery (6:00)

And if a deal looks good, or feels good, and sounds good, I figure out how to make it work. I don't think about the hesitation, I don't think about what could go wrong, I figure out how I can make it right. For instance, I have a project on at the moment where we purchased a full complex of 20 properties, with car parking, a commercial unit and so forth. It's a distressed property, and it's dragged on 12 months longer than we would have hoped. There was a concern in the beginning that if it drags on, because it's going through a court process, we had to say, okay, if it drags on and we've put our money in, will our money still work?

Will our money still work? I'm glad to say, actually, tomorrow we take the keys, we take full possession of that property. But in that length of time, the property valuation has increased by 500 euro per square metre. So it has worked. It doesn't always work the way people want. People get the dream that they buy one property and they're going to become a millionaire from it. The reality is that's not what happens. This is a process, and you have to be in it for the long haul, it has to be a long game, and most people don't think like that.

So I look at a property and think, okay, where are we at? Yes, I've had properties, Michelle, that I just broke even on. But experience has taught me different now, I take calculated risks. I'm not interested personally anymore in ripping a property apart and putting in new floors, new walls, new wiring, I'm looking for the easy ones, and there are plenty of those deals out there, maybe we'll talk about that a bit more later. I look at my experience over 30 years and I say, what works, what doesn't work for me, I know my area now.

I had a great mentor many years ago, 30 years ago, and we were looking at investing in different things. Somebody came to me, and 30 years ago I was a little bit younger, and I would get excited about different deals that might come my way. I spoke to this guy and I said, what do you think? I think this is a great deal. And he simply put his hand up in front of me and said, "Pat, stick to what you know. Stick to what you know." At the time I was learning, I knew a little bit, I'd been in property, I bought my first property when I was 19 years old, so I had a bit of experience in turning property around, reselling, flipping, and making money, but I wasn't at the level he actually assumed I was at.

So I still didn't know what I knew, if that makes sense. However, on reflection, 30 years later, I go right back to what I was doing 30 years ago, what I did know. Because most people are consistently out there trying to learn and grow, trying to learn more before they make decisions. You have to act on the information you already have, that's what's going to make the difference between people getting on the property ladder and actually becoming property investors, or not. You've got to get yourself into a position where you can take the emotion away from property.

When people invest in property, and I've brought a lot of people in to invest with me, sometimes they come in and say, "oh, if I had this I would do this, I would do that." And I say, hang on a moment, this is not your home, you have to stop thinking like it's your home and understand it's an investment property, and we have to treat it that way consistently. You've met many people in property who get really sucked into how they're going to make it beautiful, how they're going to make it like a home, and the reality is the person who purchases it is going to rip it asunder and put their own stamp on it anyway. So again, we have to think of it as a business, what would you do from a business perspective?

So when we start looking at hesitation, as you asked me about making decisions, I have this thing I teach, and I share with people a picture of an old boat. I say, let's look at this boat, it's a bit rusty, there are a few things missing, and what we're going to do together is join as a team and enter a round-the-world boat race, and the outcome is we're going to win, that's the only option. So we look at the boat and say, let's come up with some ideas, what do we need to do to make the boat go faster? People start coming up with ideas, and we write down every idea. And that's what I'm going to say to your listeners here. Think

The Boat Analogy for Making Decisions

Pat Slattery (10:56)

on paper. Right? Don't trust your memory, don't trust your thoughts, think on paper, get it out of your head and onto paper. We start writing down these ideas, and all of these ideas are good ideas. The truth is, the people who are listening here will be presented with really good ideas, and it's easy to get excited about good ideas, but remember, good ideas are not always great advice.

So what I do is make a list of all these good ideas. Some people say, paint the boat, we put it down as an idea. Some say put more seats in so we can get more people to row, we put that down. Some say take seats out, fewer people, the boat rises higher and goes faster. Some say put a sail on it, some say put an engine on it. We make a list of all of these things. Then I go through that list and ask, will this make the boat go faster? Yes or no. If the answer is no, no matter how good the idea is, if it won't make the boat go faster, we scrap it, we remove it as an option.

So if we put an engine on it, will it make the boat go faster? Very likely, great idea, we mark that down as an action, not the first action, but an action. Do we put a sail on it? That would make the boat go faster, we mark that down too. Will painting the boat make it go faster? Possibly, but is the juice worth the squeeze? No, so we set that aside, we don't do that as an action. Then we look at which of these actions will make the boat go faster first, and that becomes the first action, and we make a decision based on that.

So I go down through my action steps and think, what's the decision I need to make, well, that's what's going to make the boat go faster. If I'm presented with a property deal and I cannot find any way to make the boat go faster, I don't do the deal. It's really as simple as that. We remove the pain, we remove the emotion from the decision. And you'll notice, and your listeners will have experienced this, as soon as you say you're getting into the market, as soon as you say I've got some money to invest, everybody comes out of the woodwork, everybody approaches you with the next big deal, and the best thing, and they get presented to you like they're really, really good ideas. In most cases they can be, but they may not be great advice. So do your due diligence, don't overthink it. I do it very simply and quickly, I look at it and ask, can I find a way to make this boat go faster? Yes or no. If the numbers don't stack up, we're out. But if we can buy something cheap, refurb it, flip it, refinance it, whatever we need to do, then the reality is, when you come to making a decision, have your basic questions in place. Ask yourself, what needs to happen here to make that boat go faster, and what's the cost of that too. And then just do your sums, and if it stacks up, take action, do it.

Michelle Cairns (14:02)

Yeah, so what you're talking about really is a framework for making decisions based on a few key questions, and one of them is, does it make the boat go faster? In this analogy, is this deal going to help me achieve my goals, my targets, my dreams, whatever they might be? Does it make the boat move faster? Are there any other key questions you use when making decisions about investing, or about bigger decisions, decisions that carry bigger risk? One thing about property investing is people get so hesitant because there's more risk involved. Do those kinds of decisions need different questions?

Pat Slattery (14:52)

You see, when it comes to property, or any business, what we have to understand, and I'll be respectful and say most people, their goal is not to be in the property industry, their goal is not to have a pile of assets, their goal is not even to make an income from those assets. The goal is to create a lifestyle they deserve, from the business and the assets they build. People lose sight of that and get caught up in the emotion of the business.

This is really psychological when we understand what's going on, because your brain, once it starts to interpret uncertainty, interprets it as danger, it starts to recognise the risk. Your brain is hardwired for this, by the way, and so is everybody's, it doesn't matter whether it's the motor industry or the property industry, the principles are the same. So your brain interprets it as danger and tells you to wait, keep researching, watch another webinar, listen to another podcast, and before long, a whole six months, or maybe three years, have gone by, and they're still learning.

You're still learning, right? So I have a saying I share with a lot of people, and it's worth thinking about: opportunity comes to pass, not to pause. I've heard people say, "well, I'll look at this and wait and see, I'll come back and buy this cheaper in six months." In today's market, property moves very quickly, especially if the deal is good, so the reality is it won't still be there in six months' time. Your listeners can probably recognise moments in their own past where an opportunity came, they thought about it, thought maybe I'll go for it, and all of a sudden it's gone. Opportunity passes you by, it doesn't wait around. So we have to start thinking differently about opportunity.

Acting Quickly on Opportunities

Pat Slattery (17:02)

We have to weigh it up quickly and then make a decision, and if a decision passes you by, you let it go. Every time somebody says "I missed that opportunity," the brain kicks in again, "you missed that opportunity, what were you doing?" And what do they do, they procrastinate a little more, sit on the fence a little longer, and another opportunity passes them by. But if an opportunity passes you by, you don't stay stuck, you move quickly to the next one, because opportunities are like buses, if you miss this one, there's another one coming in 20 minutes, but make sure you get on this one. Don't stand there watching the bus pass you by, get on the bus. So when you see the opportunity, take it.

I've had a lot of experience with different people over the years, and let me tell you this: try this the next time you're at a networking event, ask people, did you ever lose an opportunity? It becomes like a competition, everybody wants to tell you the story of the opportunity they lost. Then ask, well, what one have you won, what one has worked for you? I bet probably five percent of the people can answer that, because the other 95% are saying, "oh, I'm still looking."

I'm still looking. So if your listeners are sitting on the fence when it comes to property, don't wait. The reality is the challenge is identical, and the truth is too, successful people don't have certainty. The people you might look up to, especially in the property industry, particularly speakers and coaches, where everything looks perfect, they don't have certainty either. But they do become comfortable making decisions without having all the answers, and that's confidence.

Michelle Cairns (19:00)

You must have seen many of these people, the "successful" people who've stood the test of time. And you're saying one of the patterns you notice is that they're making decisions and they have confidence in their decisions. Are there any other patterns you notice with people who do achieve their goals?

Pat Slattery (19:27)

Well, number one is habits. Not intelligence, not luck, not even finance, it's habits. The successful investors I've met have routines. Every week they speak with agents, every week they're analysing deals, every week they're speaking with investors, every week they're reviewing finance, every week they're making offers. They are, what I call, in motion. Meanwhile, someone else waits until they have more time. Remember, momentum beats motivation every time. The people I know who are really successful are out there every single day, and by the way, they're not always using their own money either. Every market rewards creativity more than ever.

Habits of Successful Investors

Pat Slattery (20:33)

So, a simple example: strategy one is buy below market value. That seems obvious, everybody knows this, but few people are consistently looking for it. They're hoping a deal will find them, hoping they meet somebody, but they're not actively looking for it. You need to spend time building relationships with estate agents, not emailing them, not just clicking on Rightmove or whatever portal, but actually speaking with them, because when agents trust you, they'll often tell you about opportunities before they ever reach the market. Write this down: relationships create opportunities.

Strategy number two is add value. You don't just buy property, you buy potential. Can you extend it? Can you convert it? Can you improve the ratings? Can you split a house, add bedrooms, create multiple income streams? The money is often created through what you do after purchase, rather than when you buy, so we've got to be asking those questions, we've got to be looking at that.

Then strategy number three is joint ventures. One of the biggest myths people have is "I need loads of money," and the answer is no, you don't. Sometimes one person has experience and another has capital, you've got to build relationships with those people, ask yourself what it is you have. The right partnership creates opportunities neither person could achieve alone, but partnerships require trust, and trust is built through reputation. I made most of my money from property from sourcing, from being a broker, brokering high-value deals with high-value people.

Building Trust and Relationships in Property

Pat Slattery (22:59)

People ask how I found them, because you know where I come from, I didn't grow up with that education, I left school at 14. But I've always been a connector of people, consistently knocking on doors, always looking for more people, you will never know enough people. Whatever industry you're in, you've got to find more people within it, find out who the movers and shakers are, who has the best relationships, and go and find them, and build a good reputation with them, because the better the reputation, the higher the probability you'll do more business.

People say in business it's all about who you know, but the reality is it's about who knows you. You have to create that power of connection, get out and connect with as many people as you possibly can, become a connector of people, and see what happens. I have a very large network, and consistently people reach out to me and say, "Pat, I'm looking for somebody in this industry, who would you recommend?" I usually recommend somebody in my network, and because of reciprocation, people want to pay back the favour, so they come to me with deals. I get offered so many deals in a week you couldn't believe it, sometimes I don't even see half of them, and that's because I've built a reputation of connecting people.

Strategy number four is build cash flow first. People are obsessed with portfolio size, but I would rather own a few properties producing excellent cash flow than lots

Focusing on Cash Flow for Freedom

Pat Slattery (24:55)

of properties creating stress, because cash flow buys choices, it gives you more choices, and choices create freedom. Freedom is really what people are after, the freedom to build your business, to build the lifestyle you deserve, and that's why you're doing what you do, and why you invested in the first place.

When you invest in property, maybe there are a few people who like to walk down the street and feel, "oh, I own that property." I usually walk down the street and think, that's making me a lot of money, and because of that I can afford to live the lifestyle I live. I live here in Spain right now, only two or three minutes from the beach, there are eight beaches within five minutes' walk of me, and every day I have a coffee on the beach, that's my non-negotiable. I'll go for a walk on the beach every evening, sometimes during the afternoon too, and I love that life, I get to live it with the people most important to me. That's why I got into business, that's why I got into property, to create an income and a passive income that gives me lifestyle freedom, and by the way, anybody listening, that's what you deserve. It's back to the old programming that stops people taking action, the uncertainty, the fear of taking action, the fear of whether you know enough, it's never really about that, it's about taking action on the thing you need to do.

And the truth is, you're going to hear horror stories from people who have never bought property. Usually 95% of them know nothing about what it is you want to do. You've got to say to yourself, if I'm going to get into the property business, I need to make this work, and then find a way to make it work. If you focus only on finding a way to make it work, you will make it work and produce the outcome you desire, and if you desire it, you deserve it. You've got to stop apologising for being ambitious, because in my experience, in business and in property, it doesn't matter the business, the thing that stops most people from taking action is what will other people think.

Michelle Cairns (27:30)

On that then, so if you're suggesting that when people are apologising, they're not surrounding themselves with like-minded people, people for whom their goals feel normal, how important is environment to you?

Pat Slattery (27:52)

It is everything. In my early twenties, I had an opportunity to sit down for a cup of coffee with Robert Kiyosaki, and in that conversation, I think I was about 21 at the time, he gave me the two best pieces of advice I've ever received. We discussed life and goals, and then we talked about where I come from, and he said, "do you meet a lot of people who tell you what you can't do, all these no-sayers?" I said, yeah, actually that's probably about 99% of the people in my environment at the time.

And he said, what you've got to do is, anybody who keeps telling you no, take a step back, size them up, and ask yourself what do they have that you want. And he said, 99% of the time you'll discover they have nothing that you want, so why would you allow them to influence your thoughts, your behaviour, your goals, your dreams? Don't allow them to influence you. If they say no and they have what you want, pay attention, because they've already been there, and don't be afraid to ask them, well, what would you do, and usually you'll get the best advice.

The second piece of advice he gave me, he asked me what I wanted to be, and I said I want to be a self-made millionaire by the time I'm 40, and he said, "no, you won't." I kind of built a bit of an argument, I said, "you don't know me, you know nothing about me," I was a little bit passionate about what I was going to do. He said, "you will not be a self-made millionaire, because I don't exist," and then he said, "if you really, really want to become a self-made millionaire, you've got to build your team wisely, choose the right people in all areas of your environment." That doesn't mean if family or friends don't buy into it you just up and leave them, though sometimes that will happen, but you don't allow them to influence your thoughts, your behaviours, your dreams, your goals, your vision, and you certainly don't allow them to pull you down when you're moving forward. You've got to build people around you who are going to build you up.

I took that advice literally, and I'm glad to tell you, without being egotistical, I reached my first million by the time I was 30. And it wasn't me, I'll claim no responsibility for all of it, I'll take responsibility that I was a good leader and led my team, but it was my team that got me there, it was the people I surrounded myself with, the people I traded minds with on a daily basis. Your environment is absolutely everything, because your brain doesn't understand the difference between what's real and what's not, your brain will try on everything. If you're surrounded with negative conversation, even if you think you're quite positive, it's impossible not to try it on, and if it becomes consistent, most people will try it on and stay, holding that information. Then you start identifying what we call social proof, you start saying, "well, everybody's saying it, they must be right," whereas the majority of people don't take action. I'm only interested in the top 20% of people that do.

Michelle Cairns (31:39)

How much do you think your upbringing, being one of 16 children, has influenced your need to be surrounded by the right environment, and having those social skills and emotional intelligence?

Pat Slattery (32:00)

Well, I gotta tell you, I grew up in

How Upbringing and Environment Shape Success

Pat Slattery (32:04)

extreme poverty. There were 16 kids, not all living in the same house all the time, some were married before I even came into the family and had moved on. My dad, if he were alive today, would be 105. He broke his back when he was 42, so we were raised on £71 a week, that was the pension, that's what we lived on, we didn't have anything extra. That doesn't mean I was miserable, I had a great childhood, the best of fun, but I grew up in a community of over 6,000 people with about 80% unemployment, which brings a lot of issues and a lot of different beliefs.

However, within that environment, for whatever reason, whatever guided me, I had good people around me who gave me good advice and good knowledge, and allowed me to grow. I always felt there was something else, though it wasn't some grand vision that I was going to become somebody wonderful, because when I was 14 and left school, I got a job, and keeping that job for the rest of my life was the biggest goal I ever had, beyond what I even imagined, because remember, 80% of the people in my environment couldn't even get that, I'd achieved more than 80% of the people even at 14 years of age.

As I started to surround myself with more people, seeing possibilities, people sharing beliefs with me, believing anything is possible, and when I went to work in a hotel where I saw people with money like I'd never dreamed, I started realising these weren't actually bad people, because we had a myth growing up that anybody with money was the enemy, so we had to change that whole belief system. My parents never stopped me, never said no to anything, they just let me become whoever I wanted to become. My driving force was, I was never going back to where we were, I'd had enough of not having enough.

About 30 years ago, I started working with a guy called Jim Rohn, who shared some things with me that really made me aware of where I was. We talked about the four emotions that will change your life, and the first of those was disgust. Disgust says, what have you had enough of? For me, I'd had enough of not having enough, and I was committed to that, that was a decision I made. If you really make that decision and commit to it, your life is going to change. As your listeners go through life, there'll be multiple things they have enough of, and they'll have to change certain behaviours, certain people, how they think, and what they do.

For me, I'd had enough of not having enough, enough of watching my mum struggle, enough of seeing other people have simple things we didn't have. I knew I had to do something to change that, and that hunger was strong enough to drive me forward, to find a way. As I listened to more people doing well in life, I realised I'd always been a good communicator and a great connector with people, and that's stood to me over the years. I didn't always know this, when I started building my business, I had 65 staff at one point and didn't even think of it as a business, I was just doing what I needed to do.

At one point, in one of my peer groups, somebody asked me how I became so successful, and I said it just kind of happened by default. But I wasn't satisfied with that answer, so I started journaling, writing down how did I get here, that was the key question. Then I wrote down what I was doing to get here, I wanted to discover what got me to where I got to, and I made note of all the things I was doing that brought me the wins in my life. I do the same today, if I look at a new property investment opportunity, I ask the same question: what got me the wins in my previous one that I can put into this? I focus only on my wins, on the things that got me to where I'm at. But the difference this time was, once I put it on paper, I made a choice to become purposeful with that information.

Michelle Cairns (37:03)

So how did you define success? At what moment did you realise, that's it, I've made it? You've got a 25 million euro business now, but what was the moment you thought, I've cracked this?

Pat Slattery (37:23)

Michelle, I still haven't cracked it, I still haven't made it. I've got big dreams, big goals, big visions. I do it differently now, and a lot easier than I used to, for sure. But I knew this from day one, actually, even before I saw the money in my bank account. What really made the difference, going way back into my security business, I left home at 16 and moved into the city, I had five jobs, working seven days and seven nights, and I kept getting offered more work, until somebody said to me, "Pat, could you find people just like you, and if you manage them and make sure they do it the way you do, I'll pay you extra money." That's how I got into business.

The money wasn't the motivating factor at that stage, because I was already making good money. The motivating factor was that I could go back and employ my mates, my friends, people from the same area I came from, who couldn't get a job because they came from the wrong side of town. I could employ them, give them work. When I started finding work for them, I thought, okay, I can do this for more guys, for some of my brothers, and I started building a magnificent team of people from the community I grew up in, an incredible group who never, ever let me down, their loyalty was phenomenal. That was my driving force. When somebody asked me that question, I had to sit back and think, well, actually, I have 65 staff, maybe I am successful.

Michelle Cairns (39:06)

So it seems like people are pivotal in every respect, in your sense of meaning in life, being able to give back and add value, your identity, and how you look at success and your journey. I want to dig into that, because sometimes when you're working with people, it seems like they've got the same values, but when you're choosing people, how do you see through people who look like they've got matching values but actually, in reality, don't? How do you work with the dynamics of humans?

Pat Slattery (39:51)

Well, I have a lot of experience with this, and I certainly work a lot with energy. I've got to feel right, I'll have questions I ask, and if they're not answered correctly, I'll make a decision that this is somebody I don't want to do business with.

Michelle Cairns (40:10)

Can you give us an example?

Pat Slattery (40:12)

Say it again.

Michelle Cairns (40:13)

Can you give us a couple of examples of questions that would reveal people?

Pat Slattery (40:17)

I want to discover your intention. I'd have a conversation, ask you to tell me your story. When you tell me about yourself, what do you want, why do you want it, what's important to you? Then I might ask, what's a non-negotiable for you, where do you draw the line, what will you not accept? And if you have a team of people, what's your expectation, how do you manage them, and I look at your tolerance levels too.

Sometimes I get it wrong, Michelle. Sometimes I deal with the wrong people and discover it later, sometimes I deal with the best people and let them go. I say to people, you've got to trust your gut. However, the longer you build relationships with people, the better you can gain trust, and trust is not something you're owed, you have to earn it. But don't take forever to give somebody a bit of trust, if you want to get trust, you're going to have to give it, and sometimes you make mistakes.

I go back to the security industry, working as a doorman, I had 285 full-time doormen working for me, and I actually wrote what's now the standard for licensing for security people across Europe, back in 1999. From that I developed a security training company, training doormen all over Ireland and the UK. People often ask, how do you know who to refuse, which is a bit of a contentious question. Sometimes people say, well, what if you refuse somebody and you were wrong? I'm sure that has happened, but I'd rather be wrong and keep them out than be wrong and let them in, and I have the same approach to life. If something doesn't feel right, I just won't let you in, and I might be wrong, but I'd rather be wrong that way. Does that make sense?

Michelle Cairns (42:38)

Yeah.

Pat Slattery (42:39)

Sometimes too, Michelle, I'll ask very clearly what your intention is, and I always say to people, be very honest, always, about your intention. Because we meet too many people who put their arm around your shoulder and say, "oh, we're going to be great friends, we can do this," and all they're thinking is what can I get out of this person. So if I'm going to do business with you, Michelle, I'll say, let me tell you this, I'm only interested in making money here. If this property doesn't make money, I want to maximise what I can make from this deal, or I'm not in the deal, simple as that. I'm not looking to build relationships or make friends, I'm looking to make money. If somebody says that to me, I say, that's perfect, because now they're being honest, I can work with that, I know exactly where we stand.

If somebody says, "Pat, I'd like to build a relationship, we can look at how to expand this and maybe build into more," well, I have a business partner here in Spain, we're out there consistently, I've been doing business with this man for 25, 26 years now. We had to start somewhere, we had to give a level of trust at the beginning, and we've continued and will probably continue for years to come, we're now moving into Dubai, opening an office there, bringing investors in. That relationship has built over time.

Because every single thing you're doing, if you get into business with somebody, it's a relationship, that's all you're ever doing, whether they're joint venture partners, tradesmen, or salespeople, it doesn't matter, you're only ever building relationships. And when we understand this, all we're ever doing is managing expectations in a relationship, because the moment an expectation isn't met, that's when relationships fall apart, personal or business, it doesn't matter. If you're in a relationship with someone, you have an expectation they'll treat you well, and if they don't meet that expectation, chances are the relationship falls apart. It's no different in business, every person you do business with, you're managing expectations, so you need to know what their expectation is.

It's very important we understand people, especially in the property industry, because properties don't introduce themselves, people do. The next investor, the next broker, the next builder, the next agent, the private lender, they can all come from one conversation, but the property doesn't introduce itself. Most people go to property networks or networking events looking for what they can get, instead of asking, who can I help today? If you come with a different mindset, thinking, who can I help, that's usually what gets the opportunities coming back. Most people miss it, most people go thinking they're going to find or sell something, rarely does somebody go thinking they're going to buy into something or buy from somebody. Remember, it's all about people, it's all about people.

As you're going through this, you need the right team of people with the right information, the right knowledge, people you can tap into, people who are part of your resource. I generally try to find people who are much more knowledgeable than me in certain areas, I'll find somebody really good at researching and put them to work, I don't necessarily do it myself. I have other people who are great negotiators, though I'm quite a good negotiator myself, to be fair, so sometimes people use me for negotiation within my network, if there's a big deal coming and they need somebody to come in and negotiate, they'll ask if I can support them, and I'll go and support them. Your people are everything, everything.

When we talk about how the marketplace changes, people say to me, "oh, the marketplace isn't the same as it was in the 90s," and I've heard that from my dad a thousand times too, and yes, there were challenges in the 90s, there was huge uncertainty in 2008, then we had COVID, then inflation, interest rates rising. But remember, every cycle creates winners, and also creates people who wait. Markets don't stop opportunities, they simply change where they are, and good investors adapt. This is actually why I'm delighted to see you doing a podcast like this, Michelle, because this is what your people need to listen to, they need to find the people who do adapt, and learn from them, learn from the people who are out there actively doing it, making the changes, understanding that opportunities don't stop, the market doesn't stop opportunities.

Michelle Cairns (49:06)

You have to decide which side of the fence you want to be on, and it's all about making those decisions. I completely agree, I love everything you've said, Pat, there are so many different avenues we could spend all day talking about, there's just so much gold in there. I'd encourage everyone listening or watching to really re-listen to this conversation and pick out the themes, because there are some really strong ones, and of course we're talking about property investing, but it can be applied to any area of life really, the values you talk about, working with people, integrity, environment, all of these things, taking action. I hope this podcast really takes you one step further towards action, because that's what we're about at the Key Club, it's all about looking

Key Takeaways and Three Questions for Action

Michelle Cairns (50:04)

for those keys to success and spotting those patterns, and you've brought so many today, so many keys people can take away. So to summarise, to finish on there, is there one key action people could take today that you'd recommend? I know we're talking to people at every stage, lots of different scenarios out there, but is there one key action you think people can just go out and implement today that would put them one step closer to their goals?

Pat Slattery (50:42)

Well, usually there are three questions I ask people. First: what exactly are you waiting for, can you define it, or are you hoping uncertainty disappears, because it won't. Second: what is the real downside, I mean the real downside, because when I look at where people are at, they often have an imagined downside, so what's the real downside, not the imagined one, write it down, then write down how you would manage it. And let me tell you, most of the fears you have will shrink once they're written down. And lastly: if nothing changes over the next three years, will you regret not starting today? Think about that.

Michelle Cairns (51:40)

I love it, they're fantastic questions. What I'm going to do is extract those three questions and put them in the show notes, so someone listening today can go straight to those show notes and action them, sit down with pen and paper, or your computer, whatever it is, and just give those three questions some thought. They're great questions, and sometimes the right question asked can really shift your direction and put you on a new path. I think that's a great place to wrap up. Pat, where can people find out more about you, what you're up to, and connect with you?

Pat Slattery (52:18)

You'll usually find me on my social media, just Google Pat Slattery. Or my website is patslattery.com, though it's on the revamp so it might be down as I'm giving it to you now, but hopefully it'll be back by the time your listeners listen. Reach out to me on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, that's really where I'm at. You'll find me under Pat Slattery, or Pat Slattery International.

Michelle Cairns (52:42)

Perfect. And when you do reach out to Pat, remember to mention the Key Club Podcast, and stay connected, it'd be great to see where you're up to, Pat, and we look forward to watching what's next for you. So thank you so much for your time today, and we'll see you next time.

Pat Slattery (52:58)

Thank you.

Michelle Cairns (53:00)

Take care, guys.